#318: How To Get Your Point Across w/ Your Brand w/ Fran Biderman-Gross
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people logo brand book purpose read podcast company understand totally business hear head words write world keys questions fran design
SPEAKERS
Speaker 2 (48%), Law (48%), Speaker 3 (2%)
Law Smith
0:01
sweat equity podcast and streaming show the podcast. I don't even know what it was for in the world pragmatic entrepreneurial advice in 2020s best small medium enterprise business advisory podcast the United States. Just do a crazy laugh for no reason. You did. Yeah. Because I wanted to make a weird 2020 best podcast in streaming entertainment studio of the eastern United States. totally true and what the media innovator awards 2020 Thank you corporate vision magazine for making us when we were already winners, catch us on iTunes Apple podcast, subscribe rate review. That's the cheat code to get us up the rankings. Cuz if you can't help through our sponsorship, that's the way to help us out. Speaking sponsors. This episode is sponsored by grasshopper, try grasshopper.com. forward slash sweat. Get you $75 off an annual plan the entrepreneurs phone line added add the app on your phone have a second line. Don't need two cell phones like a drug dealer. You don't need to get your drug dealer. Yeah, don't pay too much. A couple of don't pay your cell carrier for an expensive extra line on the same device that I found out is super expensive. For some reason. Try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat like pee sweat like Montez sweat $75 off an annual plan. I use it it's great. You can pick your own vanity number do something fun but a dad joke in there have fun Like what? Like 100 dad joke that seven works out I'm excited because we have old an old friend of the program. Fran Peterman gross on advantages.net she's got a book out that's called three something how to lead a value based professional services firm on three keys. book.com Let's get this party started. About my sweat equity. Nice, lady. I am here. Oh, we got cut out. Okay. I thought you're on a call. I was okay.
2
Speaker 2
2:36
Finish up the call. I'm like I'm like a chain smoker with zoom and cell and zoom in so
Law Smith
2:46
yeah, but you're that's that's being new. That's the that's the powerful. Boss baby. You are. Girl boss. Oh my god, boss. Babe. Do you find that stuff? Kind of condescending in a way? Yeah, for like I said they called you.
2
Speaker 2
3:05
First of all you guys have the worst. Like, echo in your with your great mics. Oh, sorry. Hearing. You're hearing it through the computer.
Law Smith
3:17
Oh, yeah, we've got a weird setup. That's not what's going out on the podcast. Awesome. Don't worry. I'm good. No, no, don't be sorry. I'm gonna normal sorry. That's fine. I mean, listen, I have a mic two First things first. You are. You are a baby. And we? Yeah. In all queens needs to know this. All the airwaves. Yeah, we're doing this on video. Yeah, we're on. You're on. This is it? This is the show. Oh, my God. All right. I should blur my background because I just moved. It's too late. Too late. We've already said it. We'll fix it in post. Okay, wait, wait, hold on a second. Yeah. Do something there that wasn't there before. Yeah, no, no, that there's just one thing. So for the listeners, you know, it's, it's what you would say a busy person's office normally Oh, yeah. There we go. Product placement. I've got a book. All right. It's all better now. Yeah, I Well, let's let's do your plugs up front. Where can people find you? Where's the book? Should we buy on the site? Instead of Amazon many copies?
4:30
Should we buy a million?
Law Smith
4:33
Are you going to graph one send us one.
2
Speaker 2
4:36
Of course. I'm going to send you one. You just send me your email and I'll send you I'll send you each one number one. Number two, they can go to three keys book calm and pick up a great copy. watch all the videos of my what I call my book Bar Mitzvah because it was really fun is like a little pre COVID Well, I went to London we had this amazing party to celebrate this chart type game. effort to write this book I can tell you I honestly didn't realize what a big accomplishment it was until the morning of the book launch when Don and I went to breakfast. And he just, he just wanted to have breakfast with me to celebrate the moment dawn and celebrate the end of our work,
Law Smith
5:22
okay. Dawn is my co author, john scouts. Gotcha. I thought you're gonna say it was your bar mitzvah, because it took 13 years to write it.
2
Speaker 2
5:33
It took 13 months to write it didn't really. I had a book, I had a book deal. So here, I get this, get this. I go to dinner with Don on December 22. Don says, I want to write a book with you. And I'm like, great, what's it about? So that's a whole other story. Because he had this all mapped out, right? He's this chemical engineer, total linear thinker on this creative entrepreneur. That's very circular. It's like follow Fran and the conversations that I exhaust people. But it's, it's fun, right? So we've been the perfect complement to each other, with him truly living a purpose, life, you know, in business and And personally, and the two of us, while we you know, take different paths and walk different everything. We are completely aligned and are always aligned at the, you know, on the endgame or at the vision of things. And he's like, no, I really want to write a book with you, you you have synthesize this approach to make business so much easier for people to truly intellectually understand how to activate and implement where I'd like to say infuse purpose into their business, and it drives profitability in every aspect of it. So that's how a marketing strategist, if you want to call me that writes a leadership book on how to drive profit with purpose, but the title of the book is called How to lead a values based professional services firm. Whether it's professional services or not, doesn't matter rolls right
Law Smith
7:09
off the tongue. I mean, she could take it. Okay. Totally take it a little bit long. Give it back to us too, by the way so but you can tell blacked out on the landing page on three keys book calm. Here's how you know, she's, she's the shit is right there. You got your brand messaging for the buck, the campaign message, purpose over products, values over features, stories over facts. Wow, that's your h1 text? You know, get your call to action. Right? Like you do. Yeah. At the top of your website. Yeah. It's a novel idea. Yeah. Because all adults are children now. And they all have ADHD, and they're on the toilet, which is toilet time, sometimes looking for stuff to buy. You don't want to divert them, you know? Yes.
2
Speaker 2
7:59
And you've got to Charlie, you got two choices, you can hear the little audio trailer that we recorded that tells you a little bit about the book. Or you can just go by it if you know if you want and if you don't, if you don't believe anything we say then, you know Larry Weber, he's pretty much a bomb. You know, a professional services side and then you've got you know, here's where you can order it. Here's why we wrote it. Cuz you're here hop up for the newsletter and all but
Law Smith
8:25
your big your big purpose everything's purpose kind of mantra with advantages, advantages dotnet for anybody wants to go hire them. But um, purpose is kind of your, your mantra throughout everything, which I, you know, people conflate that with passion, I think. A little bit but what so i a lot, yeah. And purpose. I feel like you feel compelled to what compelled you to write this book. We can I can read the text on the landing page. But I want to hear from you
2
Speaker 2
9:02
is that in a nutshell? I had the Harvard grad who wanted to write a book, who truly lives this book every day, and said, Hey, you codify that. Let's pull the approach out. You can't be this little agency. On the side, you're really you really are the expert on this. Now, it's not in theory. It's like if you want to talk about what how I met him, like I literally rebranded their company in 30 days, and they actually hired me to do a logo. And I really didn't want to take the job because that's not really what we do for a living but
Law Smith
9:44
were they bidding between you and Fiverr?
2
Speaker 2
9:47
Oh, yeah, exactly. I was like, Why don't they do that? But they're a communications company and they they get a lot of things right. And they were really rock solid company and they were positioning for exit. They had acquired a number of companies. is one Keystone company. And they really needed to reposition and rebrand and prove themselves on the authority. And as a smart businessman, as Don is, and as purposeful as he is, he knew it in his gut. And then when you took someone like me who really challenged their story, and their values using their own words, I remember walking away from the presentation. It was actually a call an internal competition that I got hired to, to participate in. And they took their three creative teams from Arizona, New York and London, and said, go create a logo. And oh, by the way, I hired a branding firm to do the logo as well. So now it became a real competition. I never saw the other logos. I was the second to present to a global team of eight that were seven in the room. So everybody's flown in for two days of meetings. All cool, I'm sure. Yeah, it was. Never, I had never The only context I had for to prepare for this presentation. And I kid you not. It's totally the truth. Everything I could find on the internet about these companies, and their creative brief, which they said they pretty much gave me I asked for the original briefing on each of the two marquee companies and their new brief that they had written themselves. And I got 30 minutes, which was basically a one way conversation, like ask a bunch of questions. It's not enough to have a real conversation with each of the eight executives. So speed date, also are the branding on steroids.
Law Smith
11:52
Yeah, by the way, our podcasts are only 333 minutes. I hope your assistant joins us. So we'll have a god. All right. No, no, no, you're good. You No, no, no, you do you take as long as you want. I'm just saying. That's not a real conversation. That's what he's saying. We can have you back on. Look, you know, I'm a fan of you. So I have you on every week if we can. But I don't think that's gonna work in your schedule. I
2
Speaker 2
12:15
think that not that interesting yet anyway, long story very short, I became the most hated person in the company, because we had only known the company 31 days, prior to ever presenting in 42 minutes, I pretty much challenged a fair amount of their brand foundation. And I walked out of that meeting, making it to the second round, and then ultimately, winning the logo. That's because the brand represented everything that I had questions, the visual representation was right. So unanimously, we won. And I started a relationship with john, that is just bar none with two purpose driven individuals. And I just gave him the words two things that he was doing on a day to day. So there you have it.
Law Smith
13:04
That's the whole that's how it came to be. And then he was like, we gotta we got to put this the pen to paper on this because this is a guide that
2
Speaker 2
13:13
Yeah, and it really is that took that took about six different dinners once a month. Every time he was in New York, we will go out when he told me, we won. I was like, Great, let's go out and celebrate to dinner. And then, you know, part of me was like, Oh, my God, did you just ask a global CEO out to dinner? We went to talk. I know. But you know, I totally got to eat. And I didn't know why I thought another thing of it. But that night was magical, it seems and it was so we didn't talk about business at all. We just talked about his journey through Harvard and selling agency COMM And Herbst for $350 million. And like, it was just really interesting journey. And he's to me, he was fascinating as he was lovely. And we just, you know, that's it. So he asked me to write a book. Now we have a number in the Library of Congress that we share, and we're doing good work with it. That's pretty much it.
Law Smith
14:12
I'm gonna get him on on this podcast and then see what he says about Yeah, just to see, I have no problem with that. I want to know, I want to know what kind of in my head I know you're not like this, but it's funnier in my head that you were like going Scared Straight when you're asking the questions in those 30 minute sessions like, like getting in their face. Like, what are you about? Like getting some other brand? You see these other three internal departments are gonna do this. I'm friend, you know, like, quite, um, I think just know how to do.
2
Speaker 2
14:48
Yeah, no, you just have to remain really calm and cool. No matter no matter what. Whether you know that these people or not. You just really need to maintain your own integrity right? I really truly was interested in how these eight people were chosen to be on this committee and what they, how they aligned with the brand. And that was really where the interrogation was. So it was very much kind of really validating what we heard. And what they said. And all I did was very politely said, Hey, you know, your brand says this, but when I interviewed you, I heard these things. I'm kind of curious why this stuff doesn't show up? Well, and that was really the Oh, that's a really good observation. And if I made my own assumptions, which I did, and created for logos of different, you know, because like logos or for logo design is all subjective, right?
Law Smith
15:46
Yeah, so just don't be confusing with a logo. That's rule number one.
2
Speaker 2
15:51
Right? Well, and some people like abstract confusing things. So better have these nine at all, and see how you appeal.
Law Smith
15:57
Yeah, if your company is back about confusing people. Good. Mission accomplished. Well, you know, then Mission accomplished. Well, it's a it's one of those things. A logo, we can talk logo theory all day, because this is it's good for the audio listeners. But logo stuff is funny, because I just go, alright, what are the best logos and thinking I used to do that? And it was a stupid question to ask. Because I'm like, I'm thinking they're gonna go, they're gonna lead me back to the answer I want to hear like to get them to say, and it never, it never worked that way. I'd be like, Alright, what just think Close your eyes to the best logos and they're gonna say Nike, say fancy FedEx with the with the hidden arrow, do it. negative space arrow FedEx rules. Yeah. But like, I think they're gonna say Apple, Nike, something like that. And they'll say, like, the most absurd, ugly old, like Blue Bell ice cream. You're like, I don't even know. I don't even know what that is right now. And I throw that out there. Like I said,
2
Speaker 2
17:05
at the end of the day, it's about education. And you have to decide how expensive it is. Yeah, that's really the bottom line. Right? Google's bed. Next bed, Starbucks bed. Right? Coke spent. And even if you look at the evolution of their, their visuals, it's about modernization and minimization. Yeah. So they minimize so that they can become recognizable with a mark. Period. Yeah. Right. You remember when Starbucks removed their explanation of text around the mermaid, and then it was just the mermaid logo. And then there was a big uproar about it. Or at least there was in my world, right?
Law Smith
17:47
I don't believe anything Seattle based. So also, what was the mermaid about I boycott Seattle? No, no, I can't. Amazon's got all of us, man. Right? Yeah, well, they move the labor market. I think that's the wildest thing about Amazon right now. But that and they basically control the servers that everybody uses. But other than that,
2
Speaker 2
18:08
they just, they're really just a logistical data company. That's really what we need to understand the same way that Tony Shea God rest his soul started, you know, a customer service company inside a shoe company. Right? But they're really all Zappos
18:23
got it. read his book. I know. Yes. I didn't. I know what I was like, God rest his soul. Man. How old Oh, he died. I know he died. Now. And you know,
Law Smith
18:34
and you got to remember we attract. We got to footnote some of these people you mentioned and not not recognizable for our audience. Totally. So right. We got that. I got it. No, no, I I'm a big fan. Now. You know me. Great. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. Now, you know, it's me. It's kind of all over. Yeah. Look, we don't know, we're totally just laser focused all the time. We're linear. We're like
3
Speaker 3
18:58
everything. There's no tangents at all. We just go straight down the subject. We are,
Law Smith
19:03
we're the Don scales of podcasting. We're just,
2
Speaker 2
19:06
that's awesome. So, you know, I'd like to say that I I don't know that I would coined the phrase, but we're strategically focused because tactics don't work. So when you think about switching over guy guests, sort of two advantages, if you want to build brand equity or generate more sales, or possibly accelerate revenue, it's, it's really about understanding how customer infused growth, what you know, takes advantage of the fact that you have more insights to understanding what your customer wants, and then aligning it with your purpose. Right. So it's not the other way around. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's how, you know, that's how things go and grow. Really.
Law Smith
19:53
Yeah, and I haven't been on the site in a while and I'm loving it. I'm loving the new site. And if anybody wants to go Advantages dotnet This is a good lesson on less is more with your brand message and, and design. You're using a lot of negative space, make the eye go where you want it to go. I see what you're doing friend of picking up what you're putting down. I'm gonna I'm gonna get that office one day and get on those frosted whiteboards that you got everywhere friend,
20:18
he was talking about your frosted whiteboard. I'm so for the pot. He was like, oh, man, friends, not only like a whiteboard. I like ideas about it.
Law Smith
20:31
But I draw wieners on a lot of Right, exactly. Yeah. And they're winners on every single whiteboard. That's how I do flowcharts they're all winners, right? It's like, yeah, if it works, well speak of the logos. We have a philosophy on this show that all logos are basically vaginas or penises. Yes. Go back and look that up and everything. And sadly, a lot of them we're not talking like it's one or the other. Yeah, I don't know that. I'm gonna debate that. Yeah, right. Hey, take it use it. If you got if you got to present to a bunch of
3
Speaker 3
21:01
CEOs, right when you're out of options list. When your bills the digger vagina, you know thing like just when you're when you're
Law Smith
21:10
when you're struggling, you're like, ah, just non sequitur. penises and vaginas.
2
Speaker 2
21:15
Let me ask you a question. Why do I look like someone who ever struggles?
Law Smith
21:19
No, oh,
21:21
I'm never gonna use this. Well, I'm never gonna use it. Well, then can you just do it for fun?
Law Smith
21:27
Yeah, just do it for a game for yourself. Do it for fun to tell us about it. That'd be great.
2
Speaker 2
21:31
All right, maybe I'll think about the right, the right space in the right time I'm doing a face. Very people are very possessive of their logos or their icons and their marks. So I'm not so sure you want to be messing with it that way?
Law Smith
21:47
No, it took me a while to figure that out too. Because, because I would go I would eventually I just started going. I wanted to talk shit like Jon taffer. And just be like, this is horrible. Like, just object, like your logo is gonna get this thick. Yeah, this looks like it's from the 90s. God bless you. If you think like shadow and 3d on something that doesn't need to be that you need to like, look at it flat, simple, minimalistic. Look, it's really hard. I'm not saying it's like a brand name or brand slogan. They're really tough to me.
2
Speaker 2
22:20
But the best piece of advice I could ever give anyone designing a logo is to truly understand the color palette and design it in black and white first. Yep, yep. Yep. Right. So you can, you know, it's like, I don't know, just equated to cooking, right? You can over salt, you can under salt. And you can over solve, but you can never reduce the over salting. So if you're going to design a logo with color, and then try to understand how it's going to work across all mediums, then go design in black and white, it loses something. But if you start with a one dimensional logo, or even a two color logo, but when you know, flat one dimensional, you have a much better shot of being able to build upon it and to let it grow and evolve than going any any other way. And I see this common mistake all the time. And that people actually want to design their logo first before they truly identify their three keys so that their logo doesn't have the right amount of meaning. Because it should be a visual representation of verbally who you are. So who are you people, people go to the design thing first, and then you end up in conversations. Like It only looks like one of two things?
Law Smith
23:45
Well, yeah, her vagina. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I figured I'd humor you. There's no that well, that's the circular way you got we got backed right back to it. So I mean, that thing with the pink elephant principle, like, that's 100% true for, you know, I was about to say 100% true for most of the meetings, but for 90% of the people. But can you explain the pink elephant thing? So you a lot of people want to go we need a new logo, and I go, first off, I go, do you need a new logo? You just think it's a logo? Or it's a brand identity? Like what is this gonna be on? You know, they're like, what's a brand identity? No, a lot of people aren't familiar with that. And I go do brand messaging because that, I would say is a lot more important. And I'd probably if we're doing one over the other, I want to get the messaging first. And then work on the logo. Because if you don't know who you are, what you do, why you're better, why I should hire you if your service company why I should buy you if you're a product. You know, how do I do it? What's the process? How, how do I trust you as a brand? You know, it's gonna be hard for me to kind of take nothing, none of that stuff and a brand message and put it into what it should be as an icon. But the pink elephant thing is they already have something in their head that they like in France 100%. Right that it's a take it sensitively, because typically the business owner made it themselves. Yes. And they don't know how bad they suck. So it's designed, which is why you're in the room in the first place. It drives me nuts doesn't matter, that doesn't matter. So it'll care. You know, this was a lesson for me on bike. Do I want to be right about this? Or do we want to just move on to the shit that Well, we're gonna end right back there most of the time. Now? Well, we're I mean, you know, I didn't
2
Speaker 2
25:40
know where I'm going with this. Right? Yeah. Okay, so if you don't anchor the visuals in the right, verbal, you're gonna end up rebranding, or you're gonna end up redoing, so you need to take the time to anchor the cause the purpose, the belief of why this organization exists. And if you get those things, right, then you can say, Alright, designer, let me help you understand why this organization exists, and what impact I want to see it have in the world. And then when you get clear on that, that starts to shape a foundation for your breath. And that gives context and imagination. If you give if you let the designer do that, as opposed to saying, Hey, I'm looking for a red and blue what you know, let them explore color palette and fonts and icon imagery and the use of it and social with photographs and things like that. There's a reason why designers go to school. And, you know, get, you know, the right appropriate, I guess, work experience and degrees on these things, because there's laws of fonts and space and all that kind of thing. Give
Law Smith
27:05
me their own ratio. Yeah.
2
Speaker 2
27:08
Yeah, whitespace giving things to people to breathe, but what
Law Smith
27:11
either way, give me a negative space, something that exhale now,
2
Speaker 2
27:15
dude, I totally love whitespace because it gives focus, and it gives space for things to breathe. So you're not, you know, like, to write a lot of words, is cheap. To capture, the essence of your brand, and just a few words is expensive, because, and the biology is behind it, right? So, you know, the part of my brain and yours that doesn't have capacity for language is really a marketers job is to actually harness what those words really are, so that it's memorable and easy to repeat. So if you can do that the marketer or the brand strategist did their job naming your company creating a tagline if that's even necessary, but giving you the keywords that that evoke the feeling that's reminiscent and familiar about how they feel about you.
Law Smith
28:17
Yeah, I'm with love it. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
28:20
That's just we're so quiet cuz we're like, I where's the pencil? Yeah, shit.
Law Smith
28:25
I'm gonna use that trick and listen to her voice on the podcast again, God. I'm gonna have to listen back is like continued education. But when a franchisee what I'm what I'm always appalled by and tell me if you feel this way, this might just be more emotional about it. But appalled. Can't wait to hear what is the people that have a business, especially if they founded it and got it up. And it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's such a substantial company. There's a lot of employees, and they really don't give a shit about the brand part. And my thing is like, how can you not really I know, like, you can't go direct correlation, probably, to profit. It is a pretty indirect route. You might you might be you could have your if you're really lucky, but they're not. They're built in their head, their bottom line probably right? So No, not necessarily. But here's what I'm going to tell you about your brand, right? You either define it, or it defines you, right? So it's just, you you're either going to control the narrative, or the people are going to formulate opinions about your service, your performance, your brand, they're going to be they're going to judge your brand by the interaction with the salesperson or the customer service person they had. And if that is not in alignment with where you know you're going in the world and the things that you want to contribute to. I know that sounds like really pie in the sky, but it's true. We've got the numbers to back it up. Right? Well, that's all it is to back it up, right? It's it's really about understanding how to harness that education, those communication fundamentals because, you know, they are going to define it for you if you do not. So if you don't leave them with a key message that resonates their emotion, they're going to have to think of one in their head. So if I said, hey, what was like doing business with so and so? And I already fed them the words Oh, Fran, she got me notice she this she that she this she that she's so purpose driven, blah, blah, blah. Or they're gonna say her? I don't know. She's like, super. Whatever, whatever. What do you know? So I don't know. It's It's kind of crazy. That second scenario, she turned in real depressing. I don't know. Well, that's the scenario we don't want she come in. I should be whatever I be depressing. get hit by the subway today. Yeah, bombed. That's what it feels like. Somebody doesn't remember. I can't stop thinking about it. Sorry. Just jump right on the rail. I mean, like, you know, nobody even tried to stop them. But yeah, you're totally right. And you're gonna love this nugget. The best who's the best? Who's the best at pushing the narrative? Your favorite? This is gonna, who's the best at doing it? and pushing the narrative? Yeah. As strong as the Navy. Yeah, he's no, I'm,
2
Speaker 2
31:33
I'm going to tell you that. It's funny. I was just, I don't realize I don't last week, I was in Las Vegas last week at a conference giving, you know, a workshop, talk, whatever you want to call it. And I said, I said, let's put politics aside. Let's put human beings and humanism aside. One of the greatest marketing campaigns. In our decade, as you know, Donald Trump had one message and spoke to one ideal persona, who did the work for him. Right? None of us will ever forget how happy or surprised we were that Trump actually won the election. And when I go back, and I bring everybody back to that moment, they're like, Oh, yeah, I was very happy. Why? Because you were one of the people that he was talking to. And if you were very surprised, it's because you weren't convinced by someone who was. So you are only one of two things, you are just elated or happy, nothing more. So. And that is because he was absolutely focused on saying consistently, one thing, talking to one ideal persona, period, same key messages over and over again. I mean, it's funny to hear the means, right stack when he could have been in 30 different locations with 30 different suits, or 30 different ties, and you hear the same messages over and over again, those consistency. That was extraordinary.
33:12
Genius.
Law Smith
33:13
Thank you for Yeah, thank you for our gauges. I've been saying that on this show for a while. There's no doubt about that. I mean, that's I think he's a PR master.
33:22
I think I don't think I don't think he is like, well, we have a team, but you don't. Like I think he's the perfect kind of guy to carry out that PR
Law Smith
33:30
he does. He does a Kevin nealon like if you're seeing a stand up Kevin nealon. Like, subliminal, it's not subliminal message, but it he basically does the compliment He wants you to say about him in the thing talking about himself. He's I'm very new, but I'm very strong. I'm a very sad president. And then like, you're like that something a five year old would say, and the simple undertone and field I'm learning about Cyclops a little bit the if you need to mobilizing the colony. If you need to mobilize ecology, psych Ops, yeah, it's it's a real thing. Go on there. Yeah. Are you in the military? Don't say Chad guy. No. But I'm saying if you need to mobilize people for movement like that, the science behind that is have it be a simple mantra message. that everybody's on board with that. That's how you get people to do the bidding for you
2
Speaker 2
34:28
said after decades of experience, I don't think you will ever hear just do it and not think about Nike and not see their ads that just are all about empowerment of you, the individual celebrating the ability, but your ability to just do something. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
34:45
Now, friend, I can't help but point out. We're talking about brand messaging and you keep calling it nyck.
Law Smith
34:53
Yeah, whatever. You know, it's really interesting. Is that like how someone says read rolling your eyes right now?
35:03
But New Yorker, okay, well, that's fine. I know. It's like Mike Maloney.
Law Smith
35:09
I was gonna try to steamroll over that. But you know, I felt like I could.
2
Speaker 2
35:16
It was palpable was like never you'll never, you'll never see see a swish and think of anything else, right? For sure.
Law Smith
35:23
Yeah. nyck. And I like to just have a slogan because just as a strange world word in other languages, like some of them just don't, don't have it. So it's a little bit like, in a weird way, a little bit American, or American, or at least English. Alright, before we end, here's what, here's what I would like to ask. I'm going to get your book read it. And we come back on maybe like a month or something. And then we didn't ask you this the first time around, because we didn't really have this question that we weren't here. And Eric wasn't coast on the show yet. The first time you were on, I got to know. And so we asked everybody the first time on or if you didn't do this, your first appearance on the show? What advice would you give your 13 year old self?
2
Speaker 2
36:19
Um, my 13 year old self? I would I would tell that person now to just own your own experiences and be confident in who you are.
Law Smith
36:33
All right. Concise sector, the brand's already in and out? Done. That was like the most like,
3
Speaker 3
36:42
but I mean, national. It's a common. It's a common. Yeah, exactly. It's a common theme. And it's something you know,
2
Speaker 2
36:49
marketing to think about it and possible. It doesn't hurt that I have a 13 year old. Right. So what are the things that I would tell her? Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. But I will. I will say that the theme that comes up all the time, is that it? I don't know, I think as we mature through age, although I'm only 29, right?
Law Smith
37:13
I'm pregnant at 16, huh? Yeah, we're 34 we're 37 I'm doing your math. You gave us the numbers. I'm doing the math. Okay. 29. Listen, I know, you're
37:29
New York's
2
Speaker 2
37:30
said I have a granddaughter this year. You know, um, no, I really, truly think about this, often that, you know, the people around me and the things that I've learned, and I would say the closest people who, you know, were there when I was, you know, when I was young, if you will, and you know, through being raised are no longer on this earth. But I think about the lessons they taught me and I think about and how to carry that forward. And the one constant theme, between the people who are closest to me, I think about just like, own who you are, like, don't be apologetic for feeling a certain way or behaving a certain way, okay, within reason. But I'm a truly own my own experience. Like if I'm going to walk into a room, and I'm going to be angry, that's going to set the tone. If I'm going to walk into a room and be happy that's going to set the tone. Does it matter how I feel? or What happened? On the other side of that doorframe? Not really, right. As a leader, we have a responsibility to set the tone to lead. But it's more important that you own the territory that you put your feet in. Because if you can't be confident and not apologetic, then you're just not being yourself.
Law Smith
38:55
Yeah, no,
2
Speaker 2
38:56
I wish that when I was 13, someone told me in a stronger way for me to, to really own my own experiences and be confident in who I are, ie who I was, even if I wasn't confident in the decisions I was making. Right? Because there's there's lessons and everything. And until you're in your kind of mid 20s you're really living life to understand the consequences of your own actions. Right. It's it's beautiful to see I mean, I know you've got young little ones at home, but like, Oh my god, it's exhausting how many times they asked you why
Law Smith
39:35
we're in that phase. Yeah.
2
Speaker 2
39:36
Yeah. Right. But that but that's a true that's a child who truly lives an innocent purpose. Because that's the way you get to it anyway, you absolutely interrogate everything you say, with why five times I don't care if it's a word, I don't care if it's a phrase. Like that's the only way you're going to get your brain to actually harness the real language around the emotion.
Law Smith
40:02
Yeah, I want to foster curiosity too. I hate I used to hate it when I was younger when I was a little kid. And you'd ask questions. And it'd be like, I don't know, just try and shut up. Like, you know, like that because I'm the mom. And that's what Yeah, you know, that doesn't know foster care, you know, my daughter's three, and she knows what she's doing. Like, after a while, she's not even asking really why she just knows it's gonna get annoying. And she thinks it's funny as like a frat boy laugh. But I know it's coming. That's me. But you all but it's like, I found I found a way to put a button in that that loop. And it doesn't make sense. But I'd one day I was just like, She's like, why? And I was like, Why ask why but dry? Hey, Oh, good. I'm gonna bring dry. I pulled that 90s commercial out of my head somehow, for a beer that much. And then she'll say that all day? Yeah, cuz I'll be like, Are you asking why? Really? Because you're not I don't even think you're listening to the answer I'm giving you I trade
3
Speaker 3
41:02
off all the wise with a discussion with the teacher. Listen, they asked why too much. So I said, Why ask why but dry? Leave me alone about it. You get it?
Law Smith
41:13
But yeah, sure, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. You know, be confident who you are flaws and all. Like you say, like, instead of Nike. You almost had a perfect 10 out of 10 on this as a guest. I'm gonna go back and we'll say more, let's say Yeah, well, he's gonna leave room for 9.9 point nine. But we come back, we come back on a little bit. I'm gonna read it.
41:36
I promise after we read the book. I'm gonna say I'm gonna read it to you in two years.
Law Smith
41:41
No way, one month. That's why I'm putting it out there. Let me tell you something. How long is it? Let me hear here's what I'm going to tell you about you non-readers. Okay. How dare you?
2
Speaker 2
41:54
Okay, well, you're sitting here going out every two years. It's It's It's barely 50,000 words, it'll take you barely four hours to read it. But here's the thing about this book, I wouldn't. First of all, you could download the intro and get a head start. That's one, john two, you could watch the 17 minute video, which was the video that we put out on why we wrote the book, it's a little long, it probably could be a little shorter. But he was at the book launch. And for all the people who loved us and cared about us, it was too bad, you could sit for 17 minutes. And by the way, it's probably about four minutes too long. Um, so it doesn't feel like 17 hope the video teams. And I will tell you that the way you should read it is you should read the intro because it's fascinating. You should read the first two chapters on leadership and culture and then go read the appendix. And after that, choose your own adventure, even if you don't pick up another chapter. So I do love that you're
3
Speaker 3
42:48
giving us an out on having to read the whole book, but I feel like we will read the whole thing. I want to know. We actually will. I mean, I'm gonna read it. I mean, that's, you know, it's a sort of thing I'll read, except, but it is nice to get the you know, get all you know, it'd be like you only have to read the first two. Thank
Law Smith
43:06
God, we're basically the target audience. I mean, we do the show to ask smarter people how to do business things. Yeah. How do we be smart business.
2
Speaker 2
43:14
So if you are not in marketing, or you're not dealing with your merger or an acquisition, you don't need to read chapter a, you don't need to read chapter five, just understand the concept of purpose built effect your brand Foundation, and then whatever area you're in charge of. That's the chapter you should read. So you know, when you talk about leadership and culture, everybody needs that. So I might have lost you, you know a little bit on the approach. So go read the appendix because the the appendix gives you a roadmap on what the approach is and how to do it yourself. So you've got the key to the kingdom. You don't need me after you read those three chapters, and then go choose your own adventure and read whatever chapter you want or not. So, you know, I'm good with that.
Law Smith
43:58
Yeah, sorry. Cool. We all kind of have that decision. A lot of people buy books and not read them. I think that's beautiful. I can't bring trophies. I want people to walk in and go you read 20 books and hydrosol smart. Yeah, took me a long time. You say four hours. I'm trying to out long it took me to listen to these. Yeah, it's gonna be 16 for sure. I'm a slow reader. I do my finger. Listen to half speed. Yeah, it's all good. Well, but I will probably read it slowly. Because this is almost for me. This is in our world. Industry, whatever. There's no, there's not a lot of like, it's not like being a lawyer. You do continue education every every year. So you have to you have to have a lot on tape. Right. You have to autodidact kind of your way through it. Yeah. All right. We'll have you back on. Thank you for coming on. You're the best. Bye Bye now.
